Ask About Money Forum Loses the Plot

Well, it's taken some time, but it was bound to happen eventually - and it has come to pass. OverseasCafe has been banned from the Ask About Money (AAM) Overseas Property Forum. We bit our tongues on the state of this section of the much renowned investment forum for a long time - but eventually the dam burst - and the inevitable banning ensued.

It's a pity really, it was quite a good forum once upon a time. People with genuine queries went there in the hopes of getting them answered. People who had put down deposits on properties abroad went there to query why the companies with which they had been dealing had suddenly disappeared - with their money. Those who were having problems getting developers to finish properties to the standard promised made sure that everybody else knew the score. If guaranteed returns were guaranteed to do nothing more than disappear then you would find someone writing about it there. It was used as a forum to enable those most vulnerable in the whole overseas property pyramid scheme - the misfortunate investor at the bottom of the pile - to gain some traction in an otherwise arcane, unregulated and unyielding industry. In its prime it was a vibrant and excellent example of what a forum can be and that to which many fora (forums, take your pick) should aspire.

Then it all changed. Most likely because of the popularity of the forum, agents and developers didn't like having their names in lights for all the wrong reasons - heaven forbid people should know how they actually ran their businesses - so they did what all good companies do - they threatened legal action. It's a natural, and very cheap, reaction to such blatant bad publicity - get your big-shot lawyers to send threatening letters and hey-presto - 99% of forums couldn't be bothered with the hassle and will remove their posts as quickly as they were put up there. And unfortunately AAM was no different.

All this legal traffic eventually became a bit tedious for the Mods at AAM though. For a start they don't really consider overseas property purchases to be 'investment' per se. It's always been treated as the idiot child of the forum - it had to be there but if it was going to cause nuisance then it would be severely reprimanded. No credence was ever given to the fact that overseas property is the least regulated investment in the spectrum, in what has proven to be a pretty miserably regulated industry to begin with, so it perhaps needs more, rather than less, assistance from those in a position of power such as the Great Ones at AAM.

Regardless, the Mods started introducing posting guidelines that essentially strangled the forum to death. Visiting it now is like passing through an old Wild West prospecting town after the gold rush - there is tumbleweed drifting down the deserted streets where once there was the vitality and virility of public opinion and debate. You essentially can't breathe a word about anything worth mentioning on the forum, so anyone of any consequence either got banned or left of their own volition.

In our case the disenchantment with the forum had been growing for some time. Shortly before the banning a completely innocuous thread about a book on the overseas property industry, on which we had posted a number of comments, disappeared completely without a mention of why this should happen. There was certainly nothing in the thread that, even in the newly regulated environment of the AAM overseas property section, could be found in breach. Some Mod obviously decided it simply shouldn't be there - as AAM Mods seem to do.

Our banning came in relation to another relatively innocuous posting that yet another overseas property agent, Property Secrets, had gone to the wall. The poster put in as an aside that: "This overseas forum is itself looking like it is going under! first it was consigned to a sub thread of property investment and now there is virtually no one posting any more. Have we all deserted at the bust? Is there anyone still out there? Where are all the regular posters!"

Well, that was it. The tongue biting could be entertained no longer. The question was out there and it had to be answered, so it was, in a frank and forthright manner (you won't find it there now, of course, the Mods at AAM are much too thin-skinned to leave criticism of the way they run their empire exist online).

We received a severe dressing down from the chief Mod via Private Message (PM) - apparently all this sort of stuff must be done in private, no dirty laundry washing in public. We sought to disagree with said chief Mod's interpretation of what the general public should be entitled to expect from the most powerful financial services forum in the country. We offered to have the debate on the issue publicly, which wasn't even entertained, and we were accused (as you'll see on the picture accompanying this blog) of being offensive. I can assure you we were not offensive in any way, but we did have an opinion we wished to express. Being offensive in AAM parlance is, apparently, speaking your mind and this is not to be entertained under any circumstance. It is an environment that seems uncomfortably close to the Communist ethos of suffocating the truth rather than the Democracy one would expect to find embraced by any forum seeking to deliver worthy debate on the topics that matter.

In any case, that is the price of having an opinion on AAM it would appear. It is somewhat of a standing joke in Irish forum communities that most other forums were started because people were banned from AAM for expressing an opinion that differed from that of the AAM Mods. Hopefully some good will come to pass from this incident and someone will set up an overseas property forum that will actually serve the community rather than being subservient to the opinions and desires of those who set it up.

It is a great shame though, AAM had the ideal platform, and for a time, served the overseas property community very well.

AAM Overseas Property Forum - RIP 2009

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Property Secrets Calls Time

We're interrupting our annual summer hols, unfortunately to inform you of another overseas property agent that has bitten the dust. Those of you who have visited the Property Secrets website since August 11th will have noticed that the company is no more. You'll be greeted by the following message:

Dear Property Secrets members,

I regret to inform you that Visium Group, the owner of PropertySecrets.net, has closed its doors for further business and ceased trading as of Tuesday 11th August. In the end the recession has been too deep and too long to survive.

It is intended, however, that the Property Secrets website publishing business will continue as unaffected as possible, ensuring all advertising and membership commitments are met during this process.

This includes continually updated property investment advice, research and services currently available on the Property Secrets website, but does not include support for any previous investment property sold through Property Secrets.

i-PropertyAssets clients are advised to contact their letting and management partners directly or make alternative arrangements.

Notices to creditors will be issued over the next few days, notifying them of a meeting to be held on 8th September at the offices of the proposed insolvency practitioner, Walletts (click to download a pdf of the letter of notification of the creditor meeting).

In the meantime, a core team will remain to continue to provide a live website and collect outstanding payments such that amounts owing to staff and creditors can be met as best as possible, and that the value of the website and publishing business can be maintained should a potential purchaser be found by the insolvency practitioners.

Any statements of interest in purchasing some or all of the business assets of Visium Group Ltd should be directed to Walletts using the contact details on the letter of notification of creditor meeting.

On behalf of the directors of Visium Group I'd like to say thank you to all our customers, partners and staff for the last 10 years, and we wish you all the best of luck with your investments.

Best wishes

Neil Lewis, Peter Bennett, Simon Shepherd, Jez Touch

Directors

Visium Group Ltd

Simple Overseas Properties' Clients Threaten Legal Action

Irish overseas property investment company, Simple Overseas Properties (SOP), is facing court action from a number of its investors for allegedly taking deposits on developments in Morocco which were not subsequently passed to the developer.

The developments, called Asilah Marina Golf and Asilah Beach Resort, are two of a number of Mediterranean coastal Moroccan developments that the agency was promoting in Ireland at the height of the boom.

Click here for full story on the website.

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No Place in the Sun - Book on Overseas Property

If you've an interest in overseas property and you're looking for an easy read this summer you might be interested in the latest release from former overseas property agent, John Mulligan.

There's a pretty good review of the book on the website here, it might help you make up your mind whether it's likely to be something that is of interest to you or not.

The book retails for €9.95 and can be found in all good bookshops or by visiting http://www.noplaceinthesun.com/.

Derek Quinlan Retires from Quinlan Private

Derek Quinlan has decided to step down as the head of the high profile Irish property investment firm, Quinlan Private. Today's Irish Times reports that the 61 year old has "withdrawn from a management role within the firm in recent times to focus on his personal investments. He has also been spending more time at his homes in London and France."

The piece by Simon Carswell continues: "Quinlan Private gained a reputation for attracting cash-rich investors into high-profile property deals financed with high levels of bank borrowings and completed in quick transactions. The global economic slump and financial crisis has forced banks to seek renegotiated loan agreements with Quinlan Private – and Mr Quinlan on his own personal investments – due to falling values across the property markets."

There is no doubt that the myth of the 'canny Irish property investor' which circulated the planet in the late nineties and early noughties, was to a great extent propagated by the many headline deals struck by Quinlan and his group, albeit that many of these deals were struck at, or close to, the peak of the market.

According to the Times piece: "The company came to international prominence in 2004 when Mr Quinlan led a group of Irish investors to buy the luxury Savoy hotel group in London for €1.1 billion." He has also become well known for high profile deals such as the Four Seasons in Budapest, Santander in Madrid, Canary Wharf in London and expensive personal and business investments in Manhattan and around New York.

Those with a slightly jaundiced view of the world may well say that Quinlan has, much like Bertie Ahern, waited until things have gotten tough to leave the mess for someone else to clean up. He is, however, not leaving the company completely. The Times reports that "the former tax inspector will remain a significant investor with the company which will continue to be managed by its four existing partners – Olan Cremin, Peter Donnelly, Thomas Dowd and Mark O’Donnell."

The piece concludes: "Mr Quinlan has been trying to sell properties including a house in Manhattan for €23 million and offices, also in New York city, for €19 million and has reduced the prices in a bid to secure sales. He has recently been involved in negotiations with some of his banks about his investments."

Pieces on Quinlan's retirement in the Irish Times can be found here and here.

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International Law Partnership To Cease Trading

John Howell’s International Law Partnership is to close, reportedly due to a collapse in income at the firm.

The UK-based law firm, specialised in overseas conveyancing and legal issues. It is to cease to practice from July 10th 2009.

Howell has said the company had written off over £500,000 of anticipated income so far this year, while actual income had fallen by nearly 75%.

“Over the last few months our clients – and, in particular, our developer clients – have been going bust at a catastrophic rate and many of our other clients are unwilling or unable to pay their bills,” said Howell. “We have, therefore and with great regret, decided to close the business.”

Howell will be well known for his regular appearances at exhibitions and seminars at which he was invariably one of the best respected speakers. He has also been a regular advisor on TV and radio shows in both the UK and Ireland. It is to be hoped that he and his company will not be lost to the overseas property community completely.

The full story on the closure of ILP can be found here.

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Considering relocating to Spain?

If you've ever had any notions about relocating to Spain then a read of this rather in-depth piece in our Editorial section will be very well worth a visit.

Justin Aldridge of Eye on Spain (who is a British expat living in Spain) gives a full run-down of all the issues that were dealt with on the recent ITV series - Paradise Lost.

Essentially the programmes outline how a selection of Brittish expats have managed with investments, homes and businesses in Spain. If you are feeling a little squeamish then it might be best you didn't read it, but if you are considering moving to Spain for any reason, it should be considered at least.

It's not for the faint-hearted, but then the time for the reality check is before you consider such a huge investment or move, not when you've already taken the first steps.

Enjoy, you'll find the piece here.

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